I really wish you could build 16x16 metatiles from 8x8 blocks manually...

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darkhog
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I really wish you could build 16x16 metatiles from 8x8 blocks manually...

Post by darkhog » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:29 pm

...so you wouldn't have to stupidly waste space like this:

Image

I mean, I know it may not be feasible, either on the engine side or to make a nice and easy UI for making metatiles, but look at all those repeats. The main ground block could be used for something different as it repeats several times over, as would single-(meta)tile shores since they're basically copies of sides of shore corners. Not to mention it would be easier to update graphics if you decide to change visuals.

Just a nitpick, really.
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SuperNatetendo
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Re: I really wish you could build 16x16 metatiles from 8x8 blocks manually...

Post by SuperNatetendo » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:45 pm

That piece looks like it could easily be made into a path instead of a 16x16 tile! :)
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Convoy_Avenger
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Re: I really wish you could build 16x16 metatiles from 8x8 blocks manually...

Post by Convoy_Avenger » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:15 pm

I second this. I have a lot of "doors" I need to assemble, the corners are all identical, and the sides/bottoms could be the same sprite rotated, but instead I seem to be forced to create the whole door in the sprite, which seems wrong. Making a Path out of it is something I didn't consider though.

Having said that though, I doubt I could make a door opening animation from a path file.
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functionalform
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Re: I really wish you could build 16x16 metatiles from 8x8 blocks manually...

Post by functionalform » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:52 pm

yeah, the precisely where the path system comes in handy.

as for the metatile setup, it's a combination of 2 things:
1.) the amount of memory needed to build screens out of 8x8 and the collision/event data would just chew through your ability to make screens.

2.) it's kind of a safety mechanism because the NES can only swap palettes every 16x16 area.
darkhog
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Re: I really wish you could build 16x16 metatiles from 8x8 blocks manually...

Post by darkhog » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:04 pm

Yes, and I know that. The amount of metatiles would stay the same, only that you would be able to manually define what blocks each of the 24 metatiles is built of (plus 8 screen/global metatiles) instead of NES Maker trying to guess metatiles based on how they're laid out in the graphics file, kinda like you define character grapics.

So, in summary
- You still make your screens out of metatiles, nothing changes there.
- But, instead of NM auto guessing what 4 8x8 blocks each metatile have, you can define it manually.

Again, I feel that Joe possibly have a good explanation for the way it is set up now, but I feel like @functionalform and @Supernatendo are completely missing the point. Paths are cool and all, but there's only 4 of them and I have better use for these, like, you know, actual paths.
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MistSonata
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Re: I really wish you could build 16x16 metatiles from 8x8 blocks manually...

Post by MistSonata » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:28 pm

I haven't tested whether or not my pathfinder system is compatible with NESmaker 4 yet, but if it's not broken, making more than 4 paths is actually very possible, and I made a video demonstrating its capabilities

This wouldn't allow you to do custom metatiles, but if you're looking to add more than four paths, it's a good system. I do also have an idea for custom metatiles which would give you finer control, but that's kind of a long way out. Anyway, I made a thread about my pathfinder system here if you want to have a look: http://nesmakers.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=272
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functionalform
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Re: I really wish you could build 16x16 metatiles from 8x8 blocks manually...

Post by functionalform » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:19 pm

like i said it's the data usage.
a self contained 16x16 block uses less data than a 16x16 where you have to tell it which component pieces in the bank apply to it.
(being able to say #3 as opposed to #4 is made of 2,13, 9, and 8.)
in the end, it's no different than building a screen out of 8x8 tiles.
the nes prefer it's metatiles to be self contained blocks. it's why some games to even further save on space did 32 x 32 metatiles.

the reason for the path system is to gain a sort of 8x8 granularity at a smaller data cost than writing custom metatile selections for each block.

if mist does in fact piece it together, the question is, what does one lose in the process?
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Convoy_Avenger
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Re: I really wish you could build 16x16 metatiles from 8x8 blocks manually...

Post by Convoy_Avenger » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:17 am

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but it would help tremendously with laying out my sprite map. Is it possible to rotate the assets? Looking at one of the videos, the answer appears to be no (He has both a "left block" and a "right block". Just feels like a lot of wasted space.

Maybe I'm missing some way to creatively fit everything together.
darkhog
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Re: I really wish you could build 16x16 metatiles from 8x8 blocks manually...

Post by darkhog » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:55 am

NES can only mirror sprites, can't do it with tiles.
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MistSonata
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Re: I really wish you could build 16x16 metatiles from 8x8 blocks manually...

Post by MistSonata » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:53 pm

Convoy_Avenger wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:17 am
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but it would help tremendously with laying out my sprite map. Is it possible to rotate the assets? Looking at one of the videos, the answer appears to be no (He has both a "left block" and a "right block". Just feels like a lot of wasted space.

Maybe I'm missing some way to creatively fit everything together.
Sprite tiles can be flipped horizontally and vertically, but they cannot be rotated. Background tiles cannot be flipped or rotated.

Kasumi made a great thread about graphics here: http://nesmakers.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=189
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