Turn based RPG's on NES maker?

Basty

Active member
Now this is actually one genre I've seen people to yet tackle on.
I'd like to hear some opinions, how feasible it would be to make an actual RPG with NES maker "Such as Final Fantasy 1-3 or Dragon Quest 1-4" and how much work you'd think it would take to make in total?

Knowing the engine, it'd be much easier to make a Zelda clone if anything "Since it pretty much was made one in mind" but it should also present us an opportunity to make a good old turn based RPG as well. What are your thoughts on the matter and how would you approach it with current tool available?
 

SciNEStist

Well-known member
a complicated comabt menu isnt an easy task, but anything is possible. If someone does manage to make even a rudimentary version and release it as a module, they would have the gratitude of a lot of people.
 

PasseGaming

Active member
There is someone who appears to be working on one but they don't plan on releasing the module until after the game is completed. That is if it does get completed. I know Joe was also working on a official RPG module but it appears to not be a easy task. I myself am waiting on it as well.
 

Logana

Well-known member
Me two or there I will also wait as again i suc so much at coding that so far the only 2 pieces of code i made either where extremely simple or didn't work
 

Nishi

Member
Now this is actually one genre I've seen people to yet tackle on.
I'd like to hear some opinions, how feasible it would be to make an actual RPG with NES maker "Such as Final Fantasy 1-3 or Dragon Quest 1-4" and how much work you'd think it would take to make in total?

Knowing the engine, it'd be much easier to make a Zelda clone if anything "Since it pretty much was made one in mind" but it should also present us an opportunity to make a good old turn based RPG as well. What are your thoughts on the matter and how would you approach it with current tool available?

Slowly plugging away at making an RPG with NESMaker. But there's a few issues with making one since NESMaker isn't setup for a few things (I go into things in more detail of my main form HERE )

I'm on the third version of fighting system, and it's still not done. Health, attacks/damage, dogging are all working and monster AI works. But the current things I need to get done is items (inside/outside of battle), magic (inside/outside of battle), and monster skills that can posion, turn to stone and such.

One issue I had that I solved recently was the Health, Damage, Stats, and XP. Since NESMaker and the NES uses 1byte math, the most you can have for anything is 255. Redoing everything for a 2byte system allows for things to go up to a little over 65,000.

Next issue is Map banking. I'm still working on this one, but NESMaker doesn't go past the two maps (Overworld / Underworld). There is the setting to let you pick which map bank to use, but the system doesn't use it. With a proper JRPG the over world and dungeons need more map space then what's allowed by default. I've semi been working on this issue with custom warp code so you can go from one of the maps from NESMaker to an extra map but there's issues
1: Doesn't warp to the 3rd map and fezzes the game.
2: Takes you to the map, but graphics don't load right. (Going to a different part of third map and then back fixes issue, so thinking it's a memory issue.
3: Warp to a different part of the map.

Never mind there are other layered issues with everything I've said so far.

The last thing that's on my list of things that need to be done, is "Saving" the game. Since JRPG games tend to be on the longer side, and you want to let people save the game and comeback or save before they go to fight a boss I need to figure out how to save the character position, items, equipment, xp, gold, and a way to save all the flags that have been triggered (Pass bosses killed, special items and such).

Like @PasseGaming said, I might release things later. But I still have a crap ton of work to do. Never mind I wouldn't be able to offer support for the most part. I already have a job. :p

Since everything custom code that's outside of NESMaker's GUI, coding skills are needed to change things. And making a manual for people fallow along with to muse for their game(s) would be a project by its self.
 

PasseGaming

Active member
I believe someone has dipped their toe into saving here on the forums but from the sounds of it, takes up a lot of space.
 

Nishi

Member
I believe someone has dipped their toe into saving here on the forums but from the sounds of it, takes up a lot of space.
Seen the post. They're using the ROM chip for the save so it takes up room from the allowed 512kb, but it doesn't use a battery

I'm looking at a battery save file, so it'll have its own memory chip.
 

PasseGaming

Active member
Is it very complicated? Can it be done within the NESmaker? I'd be interested in learning how to do that. I assume you couldn't use the standard NESmaker mapper 30 boards. I don't recall there being a space for a battery.
 

Nishi

Member
I'll be using boards from Muramasa since they have a spot for the battery and the extra chip needed. As for being done with NESMaker.... I've already assuming that it's going to have to be custom code.

But since I still have a crap to of work and still need to get other things programmed into the game, a save file is the last thing on my mind. Since I'll have to see how everything is stored in memory at the end of it.
 

dale_coop

Moderator
Staff member
INL boards use flash saving... like NESmaker can do ;) (check the "about saving" topic on the forum)
 

Nishi

Member
I've read it. The flash saving uses part of the 512kb of memory you have for the game memory. Since I'll be using more maps then what NESMaker natively supports, and never mind my fighting system. so I need as much memory I can get so I don't have to cut content.

Using a battery save, will raise the cost of game since I'll need a different board, battery and an SRAM, but such is life.
 

Jonny

Well-known member
I've read it. The flash saving uses part of the 512kb of memory you have for the game memory. Since I'll be using more maps then what NESMaker natively supports, and never mind my fighting system. so I need as much memory I can get so I don't have to cut content.

Using a battery save, will raise the cost of game since I'll need a different board, battery and an SRAM, but such is life.

I can't vouch for these as I've never used them but they seem to have a battery...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001070331208.html

The keywords they're using lead me to believe they're compatible with Nesmaker but, again, I can't vouch for that.
 

dale_coop

Moderator
Staff member
The ali express doesn't have battery... it's a mapper30, it's flash saving.
Also, I suggest to don't buy those. Paul (from INL) told me they did horrible job.

@Nishi the saving will use a part of an empty unused bank... a bank that is not even used by NESmaker. Really... If you plan to use nesmaker for your games, you have plenty of space in those banks for your maps.
 

CutterCross

Active member
I think most people here don't realize that 512 KB is pretty huge for a NES game. If you're seriously concerned about running out of space, optimize. Cut things out of the default codebase you don't use, consolidate multiple instances of lengthy macros into 1 subroutine, manage your banks more efficiently, etc. At that point you're going to be blurring the line between default NESmaker and traditional NESdev, but you'll see how much you can really do with 512 KB.

To put things in a different perspective:

Final Fantasy - 256 KB [PRG ROM]
Dragon Warrior - 64 KB [PRG ROM], 16 KB [CHR ROM]
Dragon Warrior 2 - 256 KB [PRG ROM] - Doesn't appear to use 3 banks
Dragon Warrior 3 - 512 KB [PRG ROM] - Doesn't appear to use 3 banks
Dragon Warrior 4 - 512 KB [PRG ROM]
etc.

Basically, going through all the trouble of changing the mapper for NESmaker (and getting the UI and code structure to play nice with it) is not really worth it for something as trivial as sacrificing 1 bank for save data with UNROM 512.
 

PasseGaming

Active member
That's good news then. I definitely plan on trying to use a save function if I can manage to pull it off. Hopefully the topic on it is detailed enough for others to follow.
 

Jonny

Well-known member
Sorry for the confusion. It must be a universal board or something which is why there's an unused battery space. I would never recommended anything over INFneslives or Broke Studio. It was just that Nishi seems certain about doing battery save and I remembered seeing it. They're probably rubbish and more expensive. There's some good stuff on AliExpress but I don't think that's one of them!

I'll stick with my cheap and nasty password saves. Although, I'm starting to wonder if that will be less efficient than actually saving if there's a bank specifically set aside for it. Are there many NM users who have done saves already?
 

Logana

Well-known member
nope basically only 1 game, from 4.1.5. and i fdont exactly remeber the name but it didnt use battery saves it used an open bank
 

CutterCross

Active member
nope basically only 1 game, from 4.1.5. and i fdont exactly remeber the name but it didnt use battery saves it used an open bank
That is incorrect. There have been multiple NESmaker-created games that do use flash saving. (Already released or still being worked on.) Nix: The Paradox Relic, Dungeons & Doomknights, and Light From Within are all examples of NESmaker games with functioning flash saving functionality. The version of NESmaker does not prevent your ability to implement flash saving. That can also be said for any custom-programmed feature.

Sorry for the confusion. It must be a universal board or something which is why there's an unused battery space. I would never recommended anything over INFneslives or Broke Studio. It was just that Nishi seems certain about doing battery save and I remembered seeing it. They're probably rubbish and more expensive. There's some good stuff on AliExpress but I don't think that's one of them!

I'll stick with my cheap and nasty password saves. Although, I'm starting to wonder if that will be less efficient than actually saving if there's a bank specifically set aside for it. Are there many NM users who have done saves already?
Honestly if you are sticking with UNROM 512, I don't see any reason to go the roundabout method of password saves if flash saving is a native feature of the cartridge hardware. It would be more productive to simply research its implementation imo.
 

Jonny

Well-known member
When you put it like that, yeah passwords do seem silly. I'll leave that functionality till the end of my project when I'll know more in general.
Some of the termalology used in the saving thread is totally foreign at the moment and if Dale struggled to implement it what chance do I have!
Passwords were something I felt confident to pull off but thats a very lazy way of thinking.
 

dale_coop

Moderator
Staff member
Like CutterCross said, several NESmaker games are using the flash saving... (I know that pretty well, I implemented it in some myself ;))
But as we already explained (and it's why Joe hasn't implemented it natively yet), it's really difficult to write a versatile system or tutorial for that, because the saving system is STRONGLY depending of the project that will use it.
(which variable to save, and the size of each one of them, ... what to load and which default value when not saved... because all those will be hard coded)
All the code and general how to is explained in the "Lets talk about saving" topic.
 
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