chronosv2
New member
I've noticed a bit throughout the forums that users have been raising copyright concerns, even in places where it's clear no infringement is happening. So rather than pollute that thread with this (where it doesn't belong), I think it's time to air this problem out and move the discussion to a place a little more suited for the task. I'm bringing this up now because I've seen someone going into posts talking about a style of mechanics and raining on the person's parade because of copyright/IP. Thankfully for us you can't copyright gameplay mechanics. Nintendo can't come after you for using a Super Metroid style wall-kick, or creating a mechanic where your character rolls up into a ball to get into tight places. A timed bomb that can blow open walls is free and clear too. Because let's face facts -- if mechanics could be copyrighted then we'd have run out of games to make a long time ago.
I'll be the first person to admit that I've come down a little hard on people wanting to make fan-works. I feel like I have good reason to address the topic, but everyone believes what they're doing is right, else they wouldn't waste the time doing it. So let's get that out of the way now. It's not about "right" or "wrong" at this point. I made my position known very early on, but I'd like to believe that I can tell when enough is enough, which is why after the last post I made I stopped bringing it up.
My stance, though, is similar to that of The New 8-Bit Heroes. As someone who's been trying to make his way into the games industry for a while now, as much as I feel like the copyright system is broken and is in dire need of updating, I'd like the same protections myself. I treat the IPs of others with respect, just as I'd like my own to be respected. And when you make a game with your own unique world and characters, I'll respect that too.
You've got to be really careful creating fan-works of anything, though, because you could really get yourself in a lot of trouble. At minimum you'll get a Cease and Desist. Look at AM2R, or any number of other fan-works. And it's not a small problem either -- fan-works actually infringe on multiple laws in a lot of cases -- and one of those laws is extremely dangerous because it has to be enforced.
So after getting into the IP discussion on a WIP thread, I actually went and looked up more information about Intellectual Property Law, and here's what I found:
Fair Use is a shaky platform at best, especially in the context of NESMaker. Fair Use is best used for its uses in education and critique. If you're doing either of those things, you're probably fine. But you actually lose a lot of that ground for fictional works (which video games and a lot of licensed properties tend to be), which is where C&Ds become perfectly valid. Sure you may get a few points because you're not selling it, but a company is fully within their rights to shut you down, and if a lot of that happens it's going to reflect badly for the rest of us. So as far as copyright goes, you've got to be really careful because if you're using parts of someone else's IP they could come after you very quickly and there's not much you can do but capitulate and give in to their demands. If you do choose to fight it, the burden is on you to prove that. You admit guilt to the charge of copyright infringement, but then have to prove why your work should be allowed to remain without reparations made to the owner of the IP.
Want a good example of the right way to do things? "Weird Al" Yancovic actually goes out and gets permission from artists and songwriters to parody the songs he works on. Technically parody is fair use, but it's always best to get that written permission so that if the IP changes hands where you stand remains clear. Want a good example of a huge IP mess? Look at Star Control -- Stardock and the original creators have been at odds because Stardock bought the license from a closing-down-company... but the original authors believe that the license wasn't theirs to take because it wasn't ever specified that they could make games after the one that was made using that license. I think Stardock's game came out though, so you can see how far that went, but court battles are messy things, and I'd advise avoiding them if at all possible.
Now the part of fan-works where there is no question: Trademarks.
Say what you will about Nintendo shutting down AM2R. It was a beautiful, well-put-together game. But there's one huuuuuuuuge problem: What does the "M" in AM2R stand for? Who does that trademark belong to? And did you know that if you don't enforce a trademark you risk losing it? Using trademarks that don't belong to you is a great way to have your product shut down very quickly. Capcom actually plays a very dangerous game allowing Mega Man fan-games for precisely that reason. Heck. Maybe you're allowed to make specific exceptions with no danger to yourself -- I don't claim to know, but even if that is the case it's a really dangerous game to play.
TL;DR version:
Only bring up IP Law when it's relevant, and don't spread it all over the forums. Maybe keep a link to the FAQ ( https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1316851183/nesmaker-make-nes-games-no-coding-required/faqs ) handy, so that TN8BH stance is the one that gets spread, not our self-perceived interpretations of it.
I'll be the first person to admit that I've come down a little hard on people wanting to make fan-works. I feel like I have good reason to address the topic, but everyone believes what they're doing is right, else they wouldn't waste the time doing it. So let's get that out of the way now. It's not about "right" or "wrong" at this point. I made my position known very early on, but I'd like to believe that I can tell when enough is enough, which is why after the last post I made I stopped bringing it up.
My stance, though, is similar to that of The New 8-Bit Heroes. As someone who's been trying to make his way into the games industry for a while now, as much as I feel like the copyright system is broken and is in dire need of updating, I'd like the same protections myself. I treat the IPs of others with respect, just as I'd like my own to be respected. And when you make a game with your own unique world and characters, I'll respect that too.
You've got to be really careful creating fan-works of anything, though, because you could really get yourself in a lot of trouble. At minimum you'll get a Cease and Desist. Look at AM2R, or any number of other fan-works. And it's not a small problem either -- fan-works actually infringe on multiple laws in a lot of cases -- and one of those laws is extremely dangerous because it has to be enforced.
So after getting into the IP discussion on a WIP thread, I actually went and looked up more information about Intellectual Property Law, and here's what I found:
Fair Use is a shaky platform at best, especially in the context of NESMaker. Fair Use is best used for its uses in education and critique. If you're doing either of those things, you're probably fine. But you actually lose a lot of that ground for fictional works (which video games and a lot of licensed properties tend to be), which is where C&Ds become perfectly valid. Sure you may get a few points because you're not selling it, but a company is fully within their rights to shut you down, and if a lot of that happens it's going to reflect badly for the rest of us. So as far as copyright goes, you've got to be really careful because if you're using parts of someone else's IP they could come after you very quickly and there's not much you can do but capitulate and give in to their demands. If you do choose to fight it, the burden is on you to prove that. You admit guilt to the charge of copyright infringement, but then have to prove why your work should be allowed to remain without reparations made to the owner of the IP.
Want a good example of the right way to do things? "Weird Al" Yancovic actually goes out and gets permission from artists and songwriters to parody the songs he works on. Technically parody is fair use, but it's always best to get that written permission so that if the IP changes hands where you stand remains clear. Want a good example of a huge IP mess? Look at Star Control -- Stardock and the original creators have been at odds because Stardock bought the license from a closing-down-company... but the original authors believe that the license wasn't theirs to take because it wasn't ever specified that they could make games after the one that was made using that license. I think Stardock's game came out though, so you can see how far that went, but court battles are messy things, and I'd advise avoiding them if at all possible.
Now the part of fan-works where there is no question: Trademarks.
Say what you will about Nintendo shutting down AM2R. It was a beautiful, well-put-together game. But there's one huuuuuuuuge problem: What does the "M" in AM2R stand for? Who does that trademark belong to? And did you know that if you don't enforce a trademark you risk losing it? Using trademarks that don't belong to you is a great way to have your product shut down very quickly. Capcom actually plays a very dangerous game allowing Mega Man fan-games for precisely that reason. Heck. Maybe you're allowed to make specific exceptions with no danger to yourself -- I don't claim to know, but even if that is the case it's a really dangerous game to play.
TL;DR version:
Only bring up IP Law when it's relevant, and don't spread it all over the forums. Maybe keep a link to the FAQ ( https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1316851183/nesmaker-make-nes-games-no-coding-required/faqs ) handy, so that TN8BH stance is the one that gets spread, not our self-perceived interpretations of it.
